Goth/creepie TV

[Rynan]

Since I'm bored and Aaron is talking about Tim Burton, I thought I should bring up the "creepy" side of the television tube. But if you think this is an advertisement, heh heh, your wrong. I'm planning to bash the crap out of them.

I going to be looking at two shows. There's not much of this stuff, but what we got is suitable for my purposes.



Name: "Growing up Creepie."
Location: Discovery Kids
Plot: Girl grows up with bugs/insect fetish. Has a Black friend who totally understands.
Overview: This show opens up with a horrible punk(?) song about insects and how people can't "Judge". Most episodes usually revolve around her getting into some situation in which either bugs are involved or help her put the trouncing on someone. Her "parents" are bugs(mosquito and mantis), who seem unaware of the social taboo raised with a child adopted by arthropods. It's kind of Freudian. Creepie is an "educational" show, which is reinforced with a brief educational segment about some insect at the end of the show.
Opinion: The idea of insect children unnerves me, especially since they live in a mansion and are species which would normally kill each other for food. It raises so many questions. How could they raise a human child? What did they provide for food? Why aren't these atomic monster insects, they only insects capable of child rearing? The list goes on.

Other than that, it's not worth your time or your valuable t-shirt money.




Name: Edgar & Ellen
Location: Books, Nicktoons, your local Target.
Plot: Two mischievous Tim Burton ripoffs play pranks on the sad normal people of their neighborhood.
Overview: I've never gotten far with the new episodes, but this is what I know: They live in a tower next to a junkyard, their parents are "away", they have a grounds custodian, they have a piece of fur named "pet", they constantly wear pajamas(regardless of season, local fashion or vulnerability), they like to play weak sauce pranks on the normal people of their neighborhood, they have goth God hax.
Opinion: Am I the only one who wants something like this to be treated like real-life? Like focus on these hard working, totally unassuming people, caught up with the needs of their life and their family and then BAM! they're squirted with cheese wiz by pale, pajama wearing, possibly anorexic children. It sounds like a horror film that doesn't want to go too far.

Forget this weak show. Go the black humor of the original master Charles Addams instead.

Rynan will keep a vigilant eye for any programming which seeks to cater to or appeal to the Goth population and bring it before my eye of scrutiny.

That's all for now.

[Teim]

Heh heh, heres a little blast from the past.



Name: Gravedale High
Location: try Youtube.
Plot: Normal guy gets a job teaching in a school, school is full of teen aged monsters, hilarity ensues.
Overveiw: Max Schneider gets a job teaching at a school only to discover that its full of Monsters and decides not to care about it. Episodes usually involved the monsters trying to do normal human things and creeping the hell out of people. Oh and this one running joke where the Fly would yell "help meeeeeee!"
All of the characters where your typical monster stereotypes, a Vampire, a Mummy, Frankensteins Monster, but also given a horrible American High School stereotype. Which basically means that the vampire is the Fonz.
I think the whole show had this morality thing about acceptance and whatnot, but we're all well adjusted people, so we can ignore that part.
Opinion: I honestly can't remember much about this show, except that I loved it. Seriously its full of all those classic horror themes and... Look all I need to say is that the Creature from the Lagoon is in it and he's a surfer named Gill Waterman.

[The Flying Dracula Hair]

Okay, I'm assuming you're at least somewhat serious about this and say:
Charles Addam's stuff wasn't aimed at little kids, these shows are. It's not trying to appeal to the "Goth Population", it's to appeal to kids who like that style, or who like bugs and comed, and... cartoons. Harmless cartoons for kids, who like to laugh.

The image of someone so protective of the look and sound that is "goth" sitting on their couch fuming with offense to these children's shows is HILARIOUS. WHAT is your problem? You're amazing! I love you.

Do you hate the Addam's Family cartoon? Man, I used to dig that so much. I'll destroy you.

[Teim]

Aww thats just Ryanan, hes a Cynic.

[Rynan]

The image of someone so protective of the look and sound that is "goth" sitting on their couch fuming with offense to these children's shows is HILARIOUS.

Did I miss a memo where I was the Goth messiah or something? Seriously, did Aaron send one out just to spite me for my lack of....being here? Actually, thinking about it, I'm not quite sure what you said there. Are you insulting me for not liking bad shows? Do you think I'm a myspace person fuming about Pokeman? What is it that your trying to say here?

[The Flying Dracula Hair]

Aww thats just Ryanan, hes a Cynic.

...
Look at me, picking a fight..


But I've been called upon to clarify!:

Your detailed write-up of these shows constructed to "bash the crap out of them" because of how offensively faux-goth you find them paints a picture, in my mind, of someone who is compelled to watch them from sheer attachment to 'GOTH' - as, like, a culture that has substance enough to be treated carefully. That might be me sneaking in my own subjective feelings though. Eee!
But if you think they're bad, why give them the time you do? All this is humorous to me, it's a funny thing. Maybe I'll put it in a spooky cartoon!

Ironically, I'm not exactly sure what you just said right above me. I do not know these goth pokémon messiahs from MySpace. What?

We're operating too much within ourselves Rynan, we gotta communicate! We'll do it together!!!

[subobeyliminal]

I've seen the first one in the store for sale on DVD, and the second one I saw advertised on Nick. I don't have a high opinion of either of them, but then again, I don't have a high opinion of many kids shows these days.

The reason shows like AAAAH! Real Monsters, The Addam's Family, and Beetlejuice were so fantastic was because 10 years ago, most cartoons outside of Nick Jr. weren't 'for kids'. They were just shows, that happened to be cartoons. But they didn't pander.

Media for children is so watered down these days, kids are going to grow up with mush for brains, and no edge.



Also, on another note, is anyone else irritated by how glorified goth/punk are for little kids these days? Seems to me like teen angst is turning into kid angst. And the fishnets and short skirts are appearing on smaller and smaller girls.

[The Flying Dracula Hair]

I actually 'Tubed Edgar & Ellen yesterday, and in the three minute clip there were several gags that made me laugh at loud, I'm not saying I'm thee judge of quality but I think there's more to it than one may prejudge. It seems like I would have gotten a big kick out of it as a wee one.
The first wasn't Tubable so I passed on that.


Anyhoo
I'm not trying to get on your case Subob - and please correct me and get me back on track if I fall off it - but I disagree about cartoons 10 years ago though. At least to the degree that I don't think that there's that much more trash out now than there is then, and there's plenty of quality to be found.
I can tell you as someone without a TV, if I'm at my friend's or girlfriend's house I'll stop what I'm doing to watch Spongebob and Fairly Odd Parents, because in my opinion they enormously creative and just plain hysterical.

And I don't think making a show aimed towards children is pandering. When you make a show for kids it's so that they can hold onto it completely, and in most cases facilitate positive development.

As a non-cartoon example - I took a lot of things with me from the Adventures of Pete & Pete and that's certainly not meant for adults. Most "grown-ups" where portrayed as such weird and bizarre or directionless people, and I'm sure you could say an adult can appreciate the creative way they did that, that and all other elements were FOR the youth watching it.

And just because a child's show has humor for adults in it too, doesn't make it any less for children. I know with Rugrats there were MANY things I didn't "get" until I was older. And I think saying Rugrats wasn't meant for children is a hard claim to make.
I think in most cases you can think of these shows as having something added for "mom and dad" by the creative and passionate teams behind them.

The only example of what I think you're trying to get at is Sam & Max, which I don't know how any child a child when it was on could hold onto. All of it pop culture lampoons obscure enough to some teens and adults much less kiddy kids.

Also, on another note, is anyone else irritated by how glorified goth/punk are for little kids these days? Seems to me like teen angst is turning into kid angst. And the fishnets and short skirts are appearing on smaller and smaller girls.

Ah! I never noticed that, what do you mean?
Personally, I feel strange teens buying into simple punky goth items. I'm certainly incredibly attracted to the aesthetic but I think it puts a weird demand on your emotions if you're trying to scene-out at any age, unless you roll with a group that's just in it for the fashion. But those may be underdevloped opinions.
I oughta think bout it!

[Pigweed]

Let us not forget...........Invader Zim.

[subobeyliminal]

It was hard to get across what I really meant about cartoons of old, but 'not for kids' wasn't what I meant.
Cartoons today, with a few exceptions like the fairly odd parents, Foster's, and some others, are dumbed down, in my opinion. I don't like where cartoons are going these days. The concepts are irritating, and the writing is getting worse and worse.

This is just my opinion though.
And all of those shows you cited, in my opinion, are FAR better than anything on today, because they spanned a group bigger than just kids, and a lot of cartoons today are just for kids.
Basically, I feel like older cartoons had a quality of character design and writing/comedy that's rare these days. Something that everyone can get things from.

And dammit, on an entirely different note, I HATE HATE HATE the live-action shows inflitrating kid's tv these days. It was okay with Lizzie McGuire and Even Stevens, but the newer shows are pieces of tripe! Grr.

[The Flying Dracula Hair]

Ah! Well then I see what you're saying, it's just that I don't think things are as dire as all that, but it entirely possible you're more aware of what's going on than I am so I can't really claim that quality still isn't rare (or rarer).

In either case, then we could either use or NEED talented individuals such as yourself, Limi! I know you made real neat animations, is this topic something you want to tackle professionally?


As far as live action youth programming, I completely feel you.
When I visit my little sister and see her engrossed in some of the shows she eats, I become really very worried.
I'm afraid she'll go dumb from her brain trying to escape her skull.

But I did give some of them a chance, and the shows I really tease her about like Degrassi or That's So Raven don't seem to be as bad as all that though I could never watch them. But I could compare them to shows I used to love like Clarissa Explains It All and such.
I guess I can see your first point because the problem I have with her is that because of those shows she'll stick to a few channels, and there's certainly a lot of what I consider awfulawful junk food on them.

And I think she watches too much tellviz period, so the quality/trash ratio in the department doesn't comfort me at alllllll.

It's funny, because I want to have kids some day and all this reminds me that occasionally I'll acquire some gem from my youth for archival purposes. And by the time I'll all unioned and kiddlied I want to be able to draw from a deep well of Good Stuff.
Though in defense of some of my previous statements it's more that I want to share my things than being afraid by the time they're old enough they'll only be left with trash on the 'V.

*Teim'd because all the whiteness is making my eyes ouch


Pig - Great example! "Kid's" show that stretches beyond that.

[Rynan]

I don't like where cartoons are going these days. The concepts are irritating, and the writing is getting worse and worse.

I'm trying to figure out what the hell happened to the FLCL inspiration bomb. I mean, after it came out, everything looked so promising. Now it's all shit.

I personally blame old people, studios dumping money into poor investments, "kiddy gloves", pandering and Mike Lazzo.

[williamthebloody]

granted i dont spend as much time watching cartoons on tv as i probably ought to, but there are some pretty good "grown up" cartoons on adult swim sometimes, such as JLA and of course Futurama and Sealab. but i recall absolutely despising the Teen Titans cartoon. i used to adore the old teen titans comics, and to see how absolutely dumb they made it "for kids" was horrifying. i mean, they had no idea how to choreograph a fight scene alone.
i do recall the old Nicktoons of yore as being decent and not "dumbed down" such as Doug, Rocko's Modern Life, Rugrats, etc. gawd, Rocko's had some GREAT adult jokes in there. however, i do believe that Invader Zim could not have found a worse place to be than Nickelodeon. that show was waaaaaay too dark for Nick's pretty squeaky clean kid friendliness. it probably would have fared much better as a Cartoon Network "Cartoon Cartoon", in the same same vein as "Powerpuff Girls".

also, i never, ever, ever like live action kids' shows on saturday morning. they pissed me off when i was 8 and they piss me off now. i did notice (on a saturday where i happened to be awake in the morning for a change) recently that there are LOADS more live action shows these days. i remeber one, maybe two on at any given era in my youth, but this past month or so i came across at least FOUR. who LIKES that crap?


okay that didnt have anything to do with anything... nevermind the actual topic. just weighing in on certain points, i guess.

[Ashes]

a new show that coming out to nickelodeon called Making Fiends



"The show revolves around the life of Charlotte (blue), a sweet, innocent little girl who is the new girl in the town of Clamburg. Charlotte is also incredibly naïve, and is unable to think badly of anyone around her. Charlotte quickly makes friends with Vendetta (Green) , a horrid little girl who makes monsters, or fiends, through baking. Vendetta cannot stand Charlotte's happy-go-lucky nature, and will often go to great lengths to destroy Charlotte (or at least get her out of the way for a little bit). These attempts inevitably backfire, usually resulting in Vendetta doing great damage to herself. When they do succeed, Charlotte can only see the bright side of her situation and will become more annoying than usual."

some may know it as a web cartoon, it been picked up by Nick. Being aired some time next year.

I can't wait.. I loved it as a web cartoon.. and I'm sure its going to be an awesome show.

[subobeyliminal]

When Alison Mann (Nickelodeon recruiter/portfolio reviewer) came to talk to us about our portfolios, she leaked the juicy fact that this new series has stopped production to see how it fares.
Nick is inches away from canceling it.