Toth Knowledge

[Rynan]

To artists of this board, I give you the greatest gifts I can give someone.

The gift of knowledge.



This is a critique done my the legend Alex Toth, one of the least known, but greatest comic book figures of all time. To me, this sample of his critique is worth more than gold. I hope you find it's value as great as I do.

[derram]

Heres the rest of it.

Definitely good stuff. Also a really good art forum there, they takes their art seriously. Of course many a poster is a professional in the art field, lots 'o neat artsies to see.

[Rynan]

Heres the rest of it.

Excellent. I was looking for that, seeing as I only recently learned there was more of this critique. Kudos.

[Rynan]

Here's some more Toth.

[derram]

Hmmm... Now this is interesting. First, I'd like to point out that I read those other ten pages (or abouts) in slack jawed adulation, but this... this (and I speak with all the respect I can muster) sounds like an old man out of touch with the times he finds himself in.

Don't get me wrong, he has a good point, but... how can anyone say the state of anything is wrong? People buy it, so that means they like it, yeah?

Now, personally, I have yet to see any of those "scary" movies about self mutilation. As a matter of fact, I don't want to see any of them, just sounds stupid to me... but I can't really say they shouldn't exist... somebody likes them! Hell, there were two sequels and quite a few rip offs... all of which I've never seen, but someone did... and maybe a few of them liked it, who knows.

And then theres that bit about "pointy hair."

Yep. I've heard that one a few times. Generally comes from people who don't much care for them "Japanesie Cartunes."

You know. I've never much liked the mainstream comic art, Kirby and whatnot. To me, the faces have always seemed so... lifeless, the bodies, like dolls. Thats one of the reasons why I wanted to become a comic book artist myself. That way there'd be one more voice out there. A comic done the way I feel it should. And to be honest, I'd be pissed if someone, anyone told me it was "wrong."

It's nice that hes offering advice to the people like me, who are just starting out. But it's a wide world out there, sure the stupid shit takes up the majority of it in every category, but that just makes the good shit every better when ya find it.

[Rynan]

Don't get me wrong, he has a good point, but... how can anyone say the state of anything is wrong? People buy it, so that means they like it, yeah?

Thousands of DC sales prove otherwise.

Also, it's the LATE Mr. Toth. He died with these lamentations on his mind. Valid lamentations if you get past manga and indie comics.

All is not well outside your ivory tower.

[derram]

Don't get me wrong, he has a good point, but... how can anyone say the state of anything is wrong? People buy it, so that means they like it, yeah?

Thousands of DC sales prove otherwise.

Also, it's the LATE Mr. Toth. He died with these lamentations on his mind. Valid lamentations if you get past manga and indie comics.

All is not well outside your ivory tower.

Yes, and your missing my point. Sure things suck. I can't watch the majority of television programming for that very reason. But I don't think we should stop broadcasting the stuff. Hey, if it makes somebody happy, why not let 'em have it? It'll keep the dumber ones occupied.

Make Something Better. Don't just complain about how much things suck and then stroll down memory lane, "cause things were better back when."

I might be idealistic, but hell, I started with DC and Marvel. For awhile, I thought thats all there was, and thats because in the early 90's, when I started and then stopped reading comics, thats all I could find. However I got older, tastes developed and I found other things. I fell in love with anime and manga for quite awhile.

Change happens, I started reading comic books again about two years ago, thanks largely to the internet. And thats another topic all together, web comics are getting huge, why worry about a publisher, if you manage to get a fan base....

Yes, such a beautiful and majestic tower, and I am ruler of all that I survey... But, ya know, if ya think about it... at least I believe in myself instead of thinking I should look to a giant corporation to see the future... then again, me and reality have never really gotten along.

[Rynan]

Yes, and your missing my point. Sure things suck. I can't watch the majority of television programming for that very reason. But I don't think we should stop broadcasting the stuff. Hey, if it makes somebody happy, why not let 'em have it? It'll keep the dumber ones occupied.

Make Something Better. Don't just complain about how much things suck and then stroll down memory lane, "cause things were better back when."

Isn't that self defeatist there? You say let the "dumb" people have there entertainment, then you turn around advocating change. You should really make up your mind there.

Otherwise, is ignorance truly bliss?

I might be idealistic, but hell, I started with DC and Marvel. For awhile, I thought thats all there was, and thats because in the early 90's, when I started and then stopped reading comics, thats all I could find. However I got older, tastes developed and I found other things. I fell in love with anime and manga for quite awhile.

Change happens, I started reading comic books again about two years ago, thanks largely to the internet. And thats another topic all together, web comics are getting huge, why worry about a publisher, if you manage to get a fan base....

Then the point is lost on you. You don't know what was compared to what is. Mr. Toth knew this, even as he worked on comics. By him pointing out what he thought was wrong with the industry, he enlightened people like myself and others who want to go into the field. Comics are dark and terrible place now, so what's wrong with wanting to bring a little light back to it?

Yes, such a beautiful and majestic tower, and I am ruler of all that I survey... But, ya know, if ya think about it... at least I believe in myself instead of thinking I should look to a giant corporation to see the future... then again, me and reality have never really gotten along.

Good for you. You think your a rebel.

[derram]

Ok... gotta make this quick so lets see...

The majority of people are content with, well lets say "sub-par" entertainment. And, personally, I'd rather those people enjoy their mind-numbing whatsits.

However, there is a smaller group of people who actually think. And that would be my target audience. Ya know, the ones who don't get bored reading large chunks of text.

See, my point is, the ideas he expresses are wonderful, but most would be lost on a lot of people. So, let the mainstream do what it does, and we'll be over in the margins making with the awesome.

[Rynan]

See, my point is, the ideas he expresses are wonderful, but most would be lost on a lot of people. So, let the mainstream do what it does, and we'll be over in the margins making with the awesome.

I see change in the future. It will either lead to a Toth predicted mainstream crash(If it happens, I'll blame DC) and the indies take over OR, as I am hoping, the indies will begin to trickle-in to mainstream and start a new renaissance in comics(less violence and events, more fun). Change or die.

Also, sorry about some of the abuse. I hold Mr. Toth high in my book. His work is phenomenal and he had much insight about the comic industry. As someone who grew up admiring comic book heroes, his words strike a cord with me and my disillusionment toward the mainstream comic genre.

Not mine or Toth's, but I'll use it none the less.

He's isn't wrong. Current comics are a ghetto.

[The Flying Dracula Hair]

Well DC is still doing rather where I work, at least. Talk about the disintegration of the mainstream strikes me as rather fictional as a retailer.

[Rynan]

Huh? Wha?

What did you just say there?:\

[Teim]

It's not like the comicbook industry is the only one stagnating, this IS the decade of Recycling after all.

[The Flying Dracula Hair]

Huh? Wha?

What did you just say there?:\

lawls am i rambling? I don't think what I'm responding to is in this thread... I'm losing it... I don't know... I don't believe in anything anymore....

[Rynan]

It's not like the comicbook industry is the only one stagnating, this IS the decade of Recycling after all.

I smell a change in the air...