Crestfallen Local Time

[Guadalupe de Loop]

My, it's been a long time since folk used this forum. Whatever, I'll begin and see if anyone chimes in.

Is anybody else here willing to join me in rampant speculation?

Here's a first bit. What do people think the clocks signify? I'm talking about the "Crow Clock" in downtown Crestfallen and the Clock on the front of the house Serenity is living in. Both were seen to be stopped at exactly 5:00 for the entirety of the first book and most of the second. People asked "why is it always 5:00?" in comments and Aaron said both clocks were conjured by the same witch and there was a very specific reason why they were both stopped at 5:00.

Now, at the end of "Goodbye Crestfallen" the news reporter mentions that the town clock, which "has been stopped since 1857" started ticking again, and showed some photographic proof. 1857 was the year in which a big display of lights was seen in the sky over Crestfallen (seen as far south as San Francisco!) and the original Crestfallen Coven was never seen or heard from again. But since there wasn't a safe road into Crestfallen until 1950, how did the reporter even know what year the clock had stopped? Does this imply that there were comings and goings to Crestfallen before or even while the roads were "unsafe" in terms of Trolls eating people? Or did one of the original Coven give an interview? And if so, was it way back when, or sometime recent?

Now the timing for the clock starting up is fairly precise ("12:45 last Tuesday") but not very well-connected to the time in the story because we don't know whether the battle between Sera and Stiletta actually took place on that same Tuesday. Anyway, a lot of things were happening around the same time the clock started up again. If it was the day of the battle, then this was about the moment when Sera defeated Stilletta. This was also about the moment when Sera faced who she really is and took control of all her dreams - which has gotta be significant. As a commenter noted, This was about the moment when Sera told Valentine "Get out of my town." Which was the first time she'd really laid a claim to the town as her own, rather than just someplace she happened to be. As another commenter noted, if the battle was on an earlier day, it might have been about the time Vicious moved into town, which would be the first time there was more than one witch actually living there since the departure of the original coven.

Here's a bit the story hasn't covered yet. Did the matching clock on the front of Serenity's house start up at the same time? It would be puzzling if it had not.

Charles-Without-End, the leader of the original Crestfallen Coven, is depicted as having scrolling tats around his eyes. So is Valentine. I'm thinking that's probably not a coincidence. The statue of Charles-Without-End in the square is holding up his watch in the direction of Dead Betty's. Hmmm, I wonder if that watch had also been stopped at 5:00 and is now ticking. Anyway, the clock motif seems to be associated with Charles. This makes me suppose that he would be the witch who conjured the clocks, and makes me wonder if the house that Serenity's living in was originally the home of Charles-Without-End. 'Cos Valentine is mixed up in this thing somehow, and if he's CWE, then the clocks are his and he may have just started them again on purpose.

I get the impression that Serenity passed some sort of "test" in the eyes of Valentine on that day. He ran Stiletta into her like a crash-test dummy, specifically to force Sera to "fight for it!" I don't think he intended for Stiletta to actually win. Stiletta was deranged, insane, and I think Valentine took lethal advantage of her mental state to aim her at Sera. I think his entire purpose was to see whether Serenity had what it took to defeat her. Serenity faced her identity, took control of her dreams, defeated Stiletta, and laid claim to the town. Valentine, who is probably Charles-Without-End, saw this, and Charles-Without-End's clocks started again. Hmmmm.

What does it all mean?

Guadalupe

[williamthebloody]

Charles-Without-End, the leader of the original Crestfallen Coven, is depicted as having scrolling tats around his eyes. So is Valentine. I'm thinking that's probably not a coincidence. The statue of Charles-Without-End in the square is holding up his watch in the direction of Dead Betty's. Hmmm, I wonder if that watch had also been stopped at 5:00 and is now ticking. Anyway, the clock motif seems to be associated with Charles. This makes me suppose that he would be the witch who conjured the clocks, and makes me wonder if the house that Serenity's living in was originally the home of Charles-Without-End. 'Cos Valentine is mixed up in this thing somehow, and if he's CWE, then the clocks are his and he may have just started them again on purpose.

I get the impression that Serenity passed some sort of "test" in the eyes of Valentine on that day. He ran Stiletta into her like a crash-test dummy, specifically to force Sera to "fight for it!" I don't think he intended for Stiletta to actually win. Stiletta was deranged, insane, and I think Valentine took lethal advantage of her mental state to aim her at Sera. I think his entire purpose was to see whether Serenity had what it took to defeat her. Serenity faced her identity, took control of her dreams, defeated Stiletta, and laid claim to the town. Valentine, who is probably Charles-Without-End, saw this, and Charles-Without-End's clocks started again. Hmmmm.

What does it all mean?

Guadalupe

yeah, some us have put out there that Charles Without End and Valentine may indeed be the same person. i actually recently reread Goodbye Crestfallen and many of your points in the bit i quoted here, really do make sense. that Valentine may have USED Stiletta as some sort of test. maybe not only on Sera, but Stiletta too. i mean, Stiletta was an anomaly in what Valentine said that she was a witch completely without any fame. no one knew her. usually, a witch being born is big news the world over. she had been hidden away her whole life. she was probably the sort of witch Valentine wanted to "experiment" with, to see what the end result of such a anomaly would be. and then there's Sera. if Valentine IS Charles Without End, i think MAYBE he had mixed feelings about a new witch FINALLY residing in his town of Crestfallen, and the fact that she didn't "want" to live there. he made her face what she really felt, and in the end, laid claim to it as "hers." if Valentine is Charles, and he conjured the clocks, he could have very well started them up again when he heard her say this. (wow, neat idea on Sera's mansion being Charles's house back in the day. i hadn't even considered that possibility, but it seems very plausible!)

[Guadalupe de Loop]

The thing that jumps out at me when *I* reread Goodbye Crestfallen is Kelton and Tess.

These people care so much, that they put their own puny lumps of pink human flesh into a fight between Witches, for Sera. Seriously. Kelton flinging his backpack at a pyscho witch who was killing people left and right, and baiting her, and then Tess taking a flying leap in his car from the roof of Dead Bettie's, at the same psycho witch? Both of these people are putting themselves one instant from death, risking everything, for Sera.

Dammmmmn, Sera. Maybe when you were 16 you got all squishy over Maddie, but these are courageous people who are willing to lay down their lives for you, and if you don't love them both back you're a fool. Serenity seems unready for serious romance (still gotta work out whether she's lesbian or not, and she's in her 20's? ), but sometime in the aftermath of that fight *I* woulda taken them both home with me, done hot slippery naked dances with 'em to a rhumba beat, and asked them both to be part of my life and each others' for a long, long time. If you can't figure out whether you're gay or straight, honey, it's time to embrace the power of AND.

'Lupe

[williamthebloody]

well, part of Goodbye Crestfallen is Sera owning herself. at the beginning, she was willing to walk right out of the country without even saying "goodbye" to both Kelton AND Tess. at the end, she was telling Tess she loved her over the phone.

now as far as Sera's sexuality...
Sera has social anxiety issues to begin with. just TALKING to strange people is terrifying. so when it comes to having a boyfriend/girlfriend/sex partner, multiply that anxiety times a hundred. if talking and "normal" every day social activity is difficult, how hard must it be to actually be INTIMATE with somebody? touching? kissing? getting all germ-sharing? i'm HOPING that this latest (last??) chapter will get into that. it's called "Break Your Stupid Heart", after all. maybe Sera will need to have her heart broken romantically once just so she knows it isn't the end of the world.

[Guadalupe de Loop]

Yeah, I know Sera's not ready for that. But I gotta say, niether she nor anybody else is going to find people more committed and more courageous. So... make a family. Seems obvious from my perspective, but then again, I'm biased on account of I think heroic, committed people willing to risk their lives for someone they care about are sexy as hell. Is that just my quirk? Anyway, she should, at the very least, say "thanks" to them both, get Kelton's car down from the roof, and do repairs on it the way she did her TV.

I'm of the opinion that the title/tagline for the story, "Break your stupid heart" has something to do with an echo of the sentiments of the seven witching families when they moved away from europe. Remember they said, "Our hearts are no longer yours to break"? That's a sort of unexpected sentiment, or at least would be to people who think of them only in terms of their incredible powers. They were people with a heck of a lot of power, but they were still vulnerable because they cared about other people. They coulld outfight armies, but they were still fragile people who could have their hearts broken, and they cared more about that. So, yeah, I think this storyline is probably something about Sera finding out she has that fragility in common with the original Crestfallen Coven.

'Lupe.

[alphatroll]

...makes me wonder if the house that Serenity's living in was originally the home of Charles-Without-End...

(wow, neat idea on Sera's mansion being Charles's house back in the day. i hadn't even considered that possibility, but it seems very plausible!)

I'm surprised no one else noticed that earlier... I've been calling it "the ol' Maison Sans Fin" for some time!

[Guadalupe de Loop]

Okay, I just spotted the clincher.

In the comic frame immediately after Sera tells Valentine "Get the hell out of my town," Valentine fades from view but there's a response. I didn't connect it on the first reading, because it's not in a speech bubble - but this is consistent with Valentine's "disappearing trick." So it appears as an unconnected bit of text, but it pretty much has to be Valentine talking.

It says, "Welcome home, Serenity."

Not the sort of thing you'd expect from a master whose "apprentice" was just defeated in mortal combat, is it? No, it's very clear from that response that his agenda is more about
Serenity than it ever was about Stiletta. Stiletta's "apprenticeship" was never more than a sham to drive an interaction with Sera.

So he approves of Sera. Probably. And his clocks started again. We still don't really have any clues what the clocks themselves mean, or do, do we?

Also, another connection to add to the connectedness of things; Sera's response to Valentine's threat about Stiletta murdering everyone she loves, grinding the town to dust, etc, was "you'd let her do that? just destroy your whole ...?" I'm pretty sure the missing word was "town." A possible implication is that up to that point Serenity has consciously or subconsciously been regarding Crestfallen as not being her own, because of prior or superior claim by the Crestfallen Coven, or by Valentine (as Charles-Without-End of the original Crestfallen Coven). His threat about destroying the town amounts to abandoning any such claim. And this adds weight to her own claim on the town when she tells him "Get the hell out".

'Lupe

[alphatroll]

I'm not entirely convinced that was Valentine speaking - it could have been more of an "omniscient voice" thing, not actually in-story - but it seems plausible. Also, keep in mind Valentine had been nagging Sera to be his apprentice. It seems consistent with his "style" to just go on treating her as if she *were*, doncha think? So the whole Stilletta episode becomes sort of a "congratulations, *real* apprentice, you just passed your first test!" sort of dealie. Such a manipulative bastard I can't help admiring him a little bit...

[Guadalupe de Loop]

Yeah, Valentine is in fact a first-class manipulative bastard. It could very well be that.

Well, this is something. Since the clock's started ticking, there's new energy in Crestfallen. Beasties in the aquarium bursting with energy, ogres apparently working on something instead of standing around listlessly, the dining thing, and ... well ... stuff.

This is a broad hint that the clock has magical significance. Of course, the clock starting was only one of a number of things that happened at that time, and not the one most apparently significant, so it's a little weird to hear "since the clock's been ticking" rather than "since Stiletta's killing spree", but maybe that's the authorial voice directing rather than misdirecting our attention.

Come to think of it, it's also weird that the clock starting to tick even made the news. If a stopped clock in some smallish touristy-town on the California coast started ticking again, I'd expect a story in the local newspaper next time they had a slow news day, and speculation about a mild seismic tremor possibly having accidentally swung something into motion - not timely TV coverage. So maybe there's something going on where people "know" that it's somehow significant. Or maybe they just know that it's magical so they're nervous about it.

I suspect we'll soon have an appearance by Bittercurve herself. If she's still extant, she'd be drawn to that energy, right? Wonder what she'll think of the toy effigy they've installed for los turistas? Wonder if she'll show up with daughters in tow?

I expect that the role of Bittercurve in the bay was pretty much the same as the role of the trolls in the wood; keep strangers out by, um, "applying evolutionary pressure favoring the survival of those who do not approach..." . Except she had to be big enough to deal with boats. And the SSI folks have never gotten a witch to have the little conversation about that with her, have they? So, a reappearance could be interesting.

And I think her reappearance is scheduled on Crestfallen Local Time.

[alphatroll]

I think you may be the first to call Bittercurve "she", tho what with the "-curve" & all it does kinda make sense...

[williamthebloody]

i wonder if the timely news coverage of the clock starting was only because the news vans etc were already there to cover the Stiletta incident? otherwise, yeah, i would think it might be a day or a few hours at least before anyone took notice of such a small thing after a huge magic fight in town square!

[Guadalupe de Loop]

Hmm, I just assumed Bittercurve was female. But now that I look back, I can't spot any clues in the story -- or the forums. If I'd called Bittercurve "He" it looks like I'd have been the first to do that, too.

I don't know. It's hard to tell the difference even with regular snakes, and Bittercurve is a monstrous sea-serpent whose kind no one knows.

Now that I think about it, it probably doesn't matter to the story -- unless her species reproduces by partenogénesis (uh, is the English "parthenogenesis" or .... something else? I keep getting words wrong that look alike and mean something different, and I haven't actually heard someone say that in English). She's the only one, no?

'Lupe

[alphatroll]

Hmm, I just assumed Bittercurve was female. But now that I look back, I can't spot any clues in the story -- or the forums. If I'd called Bittercurve "He" it looks like I'd have been the first to do that, too.

I don't know. It's hard to tell the difference even with regular snakes, and Bittercurve is a monstrous sea-serpent whose kind no one knows.

Now that I think about it, it probably doesn't matter to the story -- unless her species reproduces by partenogénesis (uh, is the English "parthenogenesis" or .... something else? I keep getting words wrong that look alike and mean something different, and I haven't actually heard someone say that in English). She's the only one, no?

'Lupe

Yeah, "parthenogenesis" is the right word.

I probably would have called Bittercurve "he", but I suspect as a unique spellcast creature it's technically irrelevant. I don't think anybody else has even brought up the subject, I never really thought about it until your comment out front. I wonder if the reason is partly linguistic - in English there are three genders but they're not grammatically very important, while in Spanish there are two but they have much greater effect on the way things are said. Language does have a pretty significant effect on the way people think after all! It's food for thought anyway.

Just wondering, is "serpent" masculine or feminine in Spanish? IIRC in German it's "die Schlange" (feminine), but languages are hardly consistent - "die Katze" versus "el gato" comes to mind.

[Guadalupe de Loop]

"La serpiente" -- it's feminine. Well, it's formally feminine. Lots of animals in Spanish are ambiguo gender, which means you can say, for example, 'el vaca' for the bull and 'la vaca' for the cow. My little brother, and many others his age, overgeneralize that and would happily say 'el serpiente' to talk about a male snake, but it's bad grammar. Maybe when his generation is old enough to be in charge of the schools, the rules will change and it won't be bad grammar any more.

English rules about the genders of animals are even more nonsense than Spanish rules. You have separate words for most domestic animals depending on the animal's gender, and the words aren't even related! My professor says this is going away now that most people don't work with animals anymore -- people are saying 'cow' and 'dog' and 'horse' now for example regardless of the animal's gender, and the people who teach grammar have mostly given up making a distinction, or the ones who did make a distinction have mostly gotten too old to teach. (As though there are no bulls, bitches, or mares anymore? But why pick the male dog and horse, and the female cow?) Of course that isn't relevant to the nineteenth-century authors I'm studying, so I must know the old-fashioned versions of all the grammar rules.

The latest page has many images of Bittercurve. It's as though she's swimming around the subject they're talking about. It's Interesting, because they don't mention her at all, and presumably she isn't physically present. I am more and more thinking that Aaron is foreshadowing a reappearance. Or perhaps the "Lucid Dreamers" are beginning to dream her again.

'Lupe.

[alphatroll]

Don't forget it changes again when you decide to eat one of them! Yeah, vocabulary is where most of the English language's complexity is found. I guess it makes up for the simplified grammar.

(Don't forget "gallo" and "pollo" - it's not just us! )

re: Bittercurve, I think V's conjuring a new one! I hope Tess doesn't get too jealous.